Tuesday, August 14, 2007

Give me a break

Seriously, these two need to get a life. Two lesbians wanted to use a church to have their NJ wedding. The Church said no. They sued.

Now: if they had applied to use a public property and been told no, that would be one thing. But the Church is the Church and it's private and they can do what they want.

First, it's stupid--because no doubt these two will be the poster girls to say, "Look, they want more than civil marriages, they want to force churches to recognize their marriages too." People like this do far more harm than good.

Second, it's more stupid--because if we force churches to let us in, then we have to let crazy religious nutjobs into our private spaces. Your center for gay youth now has to let christians come in and "convert" (extreme example, granted.)

Seriously, these two women should just get a uhaul and go down to the local Home Depot and get married in the parking lot and not make the rest of us look bad.


Anonymous said...

Um you should read the article first guys. It's not the couple that are suing it's the church, big difference. The couple have filed a human rights complaint, which is being processed by the state. The Church is suing because the human rights claim is even being looked at.

Forgive me guys but you are 100% wqrong onm this. It is absolutely scarey to thank that a church could get away with suing a government for starting an investigation into a human rights clase. WTF they haven't ruled on it. NJ is just looking into it.

You need to read the article again, it's scary stuff kids. Human rights complaints can only be investigated if its ok with the church. UM NO!!!!

Dean P said...

Fine, I was sloppy in my shorthand. They filed a complaint. The complaint is being processed. It's the same result: they're invoking a legal process because a private organization wouldn't let them in.

I'm sure you'd have an issue with Christians demanding to use a mosque for christian services. This is the same thing.

mezba said...

exactly - the church should sue them for causing them undue harassment.

Anonymous said...

Generally, human rights complaints are about private organizations. There is nothing unusual about that at all. If the space is open for the public to rent and sharing the same religious beliefs is not a prerequisite for rental of this space, then they probably have a good case. Its the same as a store not letting black people in. It doesn't matter that the store is privately owned. It's a civil rights violation.
Again, I must assert that you 100% wrong. We cannot allow any religious organization to feel they need to aprrove or disaprove or human rights and civil rights claims.

You need to rethink this. Would it be ok for wallmart to refuse to serve them because they are gay? It's rental space. It's not a church officiated wedding they are demanding. If it were only available to their parishoners, it might be different, but its open to anyone, which means their rights have been violated and the fact that the church is sueing the governemtn for even looking into the claim is just plain scarry.

There's no cross border in this one at all. Only in the US boys, only in that country, not here.

Dean P said...

I'm not going to get into a fight with someone who won't sign his or her name to a posting.

Anonymous said...

dean you won't get into a fight because you won't win. This is the same as a church buying a rental building for an investment and not renting apartments to gay couples. Then when the gay couples file a human or civil rights complaint with the government, which is exactly what these organizations are for and almost always involve private companies, the church sues the state for looking into the claim.

If you lived in an apartment building a church bought for an investment would it be ok for them to terminate your lease and evict you if you are gay, and then sue the state for allowing your civil/human rights claim to be looked into.

You need to rethink this. Why do I continue on this vein, because its important to understand what the fundtion of cilil rights and human rights offices are and what the process is meant to address.

My name is of no consequence. Do you want it so you can visciuosly attack me basefd on my identity to deflect from the question at hand? If not tthen its a non issue.

There is NO WAY any religious organization should be allowed to interfere with the workings of ANY governement office, far less the civil rights office.

They are in the wrong and in a very scary way that could set precident for lets say the Catholic church to sue the government for allowing abortions under their ministry of health There is no stopping it if the church thinks it can sue the state for even looking into the constitutional/civil/human rights of its citizens.

Bad prescident boys and hopefully this church is slapped down hard.

This is not about freedom of religion. This is about separation of Church and State. You are viewing this the wrong and dangerous and right wing rhetoric way.

Anonymous said...

This is not for posting its just a note to you. I used to use my real name on postings, the vast majority people don't by the way. and Mike is a fairly common namre by the way, making you one of oh a few million in N.A.

NOt only are theere Liberals on these threads that will attack people, I fully believe there are paid Conservatives, many from the US who do nothing but vicioously troll Liberal Blogs. I'm not interested in being harrassed by them anymore. How many women you see posting on these blogs by the way, with their real names? It's not possible to use your real name. I can call myself mickey mouse or something if you want but that's no better than anonymous really.

Dean P said...

Anonymous (the one two comments above). No. A church is something entierly different. It's not a place of public accomodation. It's not covered by fair housing acts. It's a CHURCH. I'm as out there as you get on gay rights, but forcing churches to let gays come in and marry is simply beyond the pale.

What's next? The Catholic church has to let Jews and Muslims come in and hold Jewish and Muslim weddings?

And you can only imagine the riots in the Middle East when a mosque is forced to hold a gay wedding. You thought cartoons were bad . . .